[Jay Curwen]

Many thanks John! Hope you like 'em...

[mdillon]

I've stayed out of this conversation and have enjoyed all the perspectives. Speaking as someone who has never won a race and has only finished top 5 once or twice, I'm of the perspective of some other folks. Any gear that you have should be allowed. I understand that composite boats are faster but so are wing paddles, lighter bikes, bigger lights, lighter packs, support crews that know how to plot. Everyone has equal access to all of these items (granted some are more expensive than others). If everyone has equal access, than all is fair in love and war.
I agree with the previous statement that you need to remember why you got in the sport. I race because I enjoy the challenge and I enjoy the people that I know and see in the sport. I don't have the luxury of competing for the win. I don't feel the pressure of having to buy gear to remain competive with the top teams.
I can see how you would be frustrated if you had a good team that lost a race because one team had a better boat. I actually saw this play out several years ago at Coast to Coast (FL). The team that one had a super light 4-person canoe/kayak. Everyone else had 2 person boats. The 4-person boat swamped in the ocean but was super fast on the flat lakes/rivers. Some teams complained about the boat. In my opinion, the race was not won or loss with that boat.
I think race directors should keep their courses a mystery. That balances out the gear variation. Teams should decide on what is the best boat, bike, paddle, etc... for the race. If a team asks, is there whitewater or is it flat, the race director should say, "I can't say". If they bring a kevlar boat, then they risk the damages in whitewater.
My vote is open it all up unless you ban all the variations and standardize gear. It's either right or wrong. To me, there is no difference in gear that only gains you 10 minutes of advantage verses gear that gains you 1 hour. An advantage is an advantage.

[jfarmer]

[mdillon]

But if you specficially state "must use 1 boat for entire course and only 1 bike per team member allowed" then you avoid the space issues. The safety issues are still there.

[jforest1]

Too bad it's not a democracy:

For resolution 208, that of allowing composite boats in races with the exception of special cases where said cases preserve the safety of the racers, I vote allow all boats.

For resolution 209, that of letting the racers know what kind of hazards, water or no, they may encounter during the race, for which they should be prepared for and willing to accept the risks of navigating said hazards at the time of registration, I vote let the racers know the worst conditions they'll encounter.

That's my feelings. But who cares? Vote with your feet. If you feel STRONGLY about the matter, encourage certain RDs to do it your way by registering for their races. As for me, I don't care that much. My reasons for the "allow all" vote is because I enjoy ALL of the complicated variables in AR, the diversity of tactical/strategic advantages/disadvantages within each team, etc. based on both the racers themselves AND their gear and inventiveness with that gear.

NASCAR was used as an analogy, and where I think most would agree they would NOT like to see AR go. There are many people who like to innovate/invent gear that gives them an edge during a race (I'm one of them, and I know Jim F. is another), and if these "inventions" were considered illegal because you need a specific, unaltered model of a piece of equipment, then that would suck.

So my take:
you like more variables = compete in ARs
you like less/no variables = run track and field

both extremes are great. but in the middle is just an abandonment of the strengths of each.

the other thing i wanted to address is the "financial fairness" argument against higher-end canoes. to take the "it's not fair because kevlar is expensive" argument to extremes, not only should we think about AR gear advantages/disadvantages w.r.t. financial fairness, but that we also think about lifestyle advantages/disadvantages for "personal conditions fairness". if you are single and have more time available to you to train, you compete in one category, it's unfair to those married with kids. if you work at an outdoor store and get to think/talk/handle AR gear/training/racing all day long, its unfair to the people in desk jobs. if you live in Colorado and train in the mountains/high altitude every time you go out. should RDs then start disallowing people to compete based on their lifestyle?

of course not. but why? because them's the ropes. if you are married and with kids and don't have as much time to train as the single folks, too bad. you don't have time to train because you value you family more than the racing advantage of additional training. if you work at a desk job instead of an outfitter, too bad. you don't have time to think/talk/handle AR gear/training/racing all day long because you value your career over the racing advantage of working at an outfitter. if you live in flat, low-lying kansas instead of in the Rockies, too bad. move if you care about the racing advantages high altitude training yield. we all agree with the above "them's the ropes mentality". so why not extend it to financial advantages/disadvantages? if you don't have a pricey kevlar boat, too bad. you value whatever else you spend your money on over the racing advantage of having the better gear.

i'm not advocating divorcing for AR racing advantage. My point is that one reason RDs SHOULDN'T discriminate against better gear is "financial fairness". if AR gets to the point where you can't participate in a good race with sub-par gear without getting dead last, AR has achieved greatness, since this would mean there would be a significant number of motivated people out there who have gotten the gear because they cared enough to purchase it themselves or because they are sponsored and got it paid for by their sugar daddy.

--josh
_________________
Get Nuked! Atomic AR by Fuji

http://www.TeamROCGear.com

"In adventure racing, there is no victory for one--the finish line can only be a triumph of many."

[Dale Long]

Greg Lemond can win the Tour de France on Pee wee Hermans bike.
_________________
Make things happen.....

[kipkayak]

As I recall, Greg LeMond won in 1989 on the last time trial where he employed some radical new (and probably expensive) technology--aerobars and a special time trial helmet. Poor Fignon was the one riding the Pee Wee bike with his ponytail flopping in the wind.

Even the best will look for a technological edge when they can.

[Chipw]

[Dale Long]

Lemond did win using the Scott clip on aero bars and wore sunglasses by Oakley, both of which were unheard of.

But, he did it on a Huffy, which was the manufacturer of many top shelf bikes back then, which was pre-Wally World.
_________________
Make things happen.....

[Neal Radford]

This has been a great thread!

I would hate to see AR squash innovation...Steve Gurney from NZ was the king of pushing the limits. He made a custom carbon fiber nose piece to increase the length (about 4ft) of his teams kayak for PQ Tahoe and got a 30 min advantage for his trouble

He also built and rode a completely enclosed road bike (an aero pod) in the NZ Coast to Coast and gained a 30 min advantage - of course the race org did then ban the bike but he got his win!

Cheers,
Neal

[kipkayak]

I dream of the day when we can have the ideal adventure race on the beach here in sunny Florida. Here are the "rules".

1. No clothes.
2. No outside assistance (other than official race assistance)
3. No outside maps.


Here are the basic disciplines:
1. Barefoot beach run
2. Inflatable Beach Toy Paddle (we provide paddle, pfds and "boat")
3. Beach Cruiser/Beer Chug (during which you must ride beach cruisers we provide and drink the Colt 45 in the coozy cup duct taped to the handle bars).
4. Beach obstacle run in flip-flops (we provide the $2 flipflops courtesy of our sponsor--Cheap Chinese Labor Ltd.).

Coed teams only (of course).

I'll be sure to provide high quality maps carefully drawn with a waitress' pen on the back of a local beach bar napkin. Or, we may just take one of those map placemats from a local seafood restaurant.

I think that's about as "level" as I can make the playing field. Surely, pure physical and mental prowess will prevail.

Kip